This week’s incendiary topic: Oathbreakers
So, yeah. A pretty incendiary topic, and it’s 2 in the morning, which is a terrible, terrible time to write a livejournal entry. Still, I can’t sleep until I do. These thoughts woke me up from the verge of sleep, and I can’t seem to rest until I get it out of my head.
First, let me say that I’ve lied, sometimes aggregiously, in the past. I’ve stepped beyond the limits of my relationship before, and these experiences have ultimately been horrible enough that I sometimes recall them far clearer than the actual relationship itself. It keeps me alert, and gives me insight into exactly the kind of pain such deceit can bring to everyone involved. I wouldn’t ever want someone to think that I presented my thoughts on matters like this as if I were immune, as if I did not point such strong words at my own self. Believe me, I spent a year abusing myself for lesser offenses.
I expect to receive HUGE flack for this, as people reply with justifications and exceptions, or take my commentary as a most personal attack. *shrugs* This is my personal perspective, and not “The Way of the World.” Most people don’t agree with my beliefs, and I’m just fine with that.
I can think of three people still in my life who have seen me truly lose my temper, and one of them isn’t even my girlfriend (hi sweetie!). Watching person after person after person I care about suffer and weep over being abused by the one person who has promised not to has pushed me over that line. I’ve always been that way (protective), but seriously, aren’t you? I know most of you are, most of you have family that isn’t related by blood, and for a number of you, I’ve been right there to see your momma- or pappa-bear come ripping out.
There are four times in your life in which you are potentially given a formal oath amongst witnesses:
Public service, citizenship, court testimony, and marriage.
You aren’t otherwise sworn upon your honor and your gods at any other time. That makes these moments pretty significant, doesn’t it?
We won’t even get into public office. We’ve all seen the worst kinds of deeds perpetrated while people are in office, and no one really trusts a politician, do they? There have been extremely few exceptions to my mistrust of people who run for public office, even though I vote in every major election. What else is there to do? I sure as hell don’t want the job, and if I did, I would be suspicious of my own motivations.
Becoming an american citizen is pretty serious business, requiring years of residency, literacy tests, background checks, and (of course) the pledge.
Perjuring yourself during court testimony can land you in prison, simple as that.
And then, of course… marriage.
A couple takes upwords of a year or more to prepare for a public ceremony in which everyone they care about is present to hear and see their verbal and physical (ring) declaration to their betrothed. You’ve made and sealed a promise, an oath to your gods and family, and that promise varies from ceremony to ceremony but it essentially says that you have your partner’s back.
It is a promise you can honorably sever, and that’s pretty rare, isn’t it? Presuming a lack of violence or threatened violence in the relationship, there is nothing but a person’s own cowardice stopping them from walking away from a relationship, even a marriage.
Many people I know right now are going through divorces or worse, and honestly, that really sucks. It sucks, but it is a necessary part of the natural order of things as far as I’m concerned. My entire family is divorced – people make mistakes, right? My grandma married a swinging jerk, my aunt a violent dickhead, my uncle a woman who fled the moment he was injured and needed her to stop partying. While I’m not afraid of commitment itself, marriage frightens me because I know exactly what that commitment means to me.
Getting into a serious relationship with someone is a simple promise. People are dishonest all the time, and while it is lame, it’s a private and temporary commitment, and while I have no respect for dishonesty here, I’ve been there myself, and you only really learn by fucking up.
You don’t have to get married to enjoy a relationship. Making an oath is serious business.
When I find out that someone has (indisputably) broken that oath, abused their partner, abused that trust instead of simply and honorably divorcing their partner of X years, you had better believe I know them to be an oathbreaker.
Why would I ever trust them? I, who is not a lover, and with no witnesses to a person’s simple promises, must believe the word of someone who can not keep their word when their entire world was present when they gave it? The thought of a business deal of any sort is laughable, as is the thought of extending trust. Why would I get into a new relationship with that person, and for my own sake why would I ever marry such a person, later?
When it is some random person, it’s an objective judgement that they can’t be trusted, and not an emotional experience. The same can’t be said when it is my family.
Perhaps it is the ultra-personal experiences I’ve had with marriage, the way I’ve seen relationships destroy people through devious behavior against one’s partner, that partner they made an oath to protect. I see my father, his abuses and psychosis, his deception and uncontrollable nature and behavioral problems, and ultimately any justifications that don’t involve serious mental illness mean nothing to me.
I do hope I can be excused for having my own subjective human distortions.
Honestly, though, it really isn’t hard to suck it up and follow through, one way or the other. So maybe a person misses out on some fun, crazy adventures. Big fucking deal. Maybe you have to hold back from doing something to your partner you think they fully deserve. If it’s a more valuable alternative relationship that’s wanted, a big woman or man will deal with that oath FIRST.
You don’t even have to respect your partner. It’s called respecting yourself, and respecting your word of honor.
If you think I wrote this about any one situation, you are wrong. Sorry. “I bet you think this song is about you, don’t you, don’t you, don’t you?” I politely suggest you not. bring. it. up. here. E-mail the management.
If you’ve got a “right on!” comment to share, please do so, and if you’ve got constructive commentary, I’d love to discuss or even argue. Save self-defense for your own venue, because there is no valid excuse. Even if they’ve already screwed you over.
A brillant, and I believe, timely topic – at least for me.
I am currently working on our ceremony, and we’re working on our vows – what we want to include, what we don’t. Interestingly enough, this has been a fabulous conversation for CJ and I. (I may totally change the subject, forgive me)
For us, it’s been a very serious conversation, as I do take my vows very seriously – we WILL be saying them infront of our family (blood or not) and community, not to mention my dieties – who have certainly kicked me in the arse before, and would do it again, should I fail. *I* think that often times people walk into marriage and think little about the words they are commiting to. I’m intending to get our vows printed up and hang them on the wall – a constant reminder of the words we said, and the commitment we’ve made.
In my first commitment (a handfasting that lasted 2 1/2 years) I was disgustingly satisfied with my relationship – until my partner decided the vows and “rules” we laid out as we made out commitment, were no longer good enough for him. He wanted something else, and decided to change the rules part way through, without discussion. He vivdly broke the vow we made the Beltane morning, “I will put you, and our love, above all else.” He created a world where he was the center, and our relationship, built on commitment to our relationships First, began to crumble.
Now, I was not perfect in dealing with the situation, but I was very careful about not stepping on my vows, and at our handparting we talked briefly over the vows we had taken and the betrayal of those things. Many people feel that me leaving him was wrong, and perhaps I saw the situation too black and white. HE made a commitment, he broke it, I gave him a chance to remedy it, he did not. So, I schedule a handparting.
Because I, like you, have seen many divorces, and several happy marriages. I recognized the commitment and responsibility that those vows do take, and the mistakes people can make in thier choices of said partner. I’ve seen some ugly divorces, and some rather pleasant ones. Mine was, perhaps of the more pleasant varity, we were civil, and we loved each other still, but I knew he would not be able to keep his vow to me, and I knew that should I stay, my vows would also be broken.
With CJ, before we got engaged, we talked about all this extensively. He knew where I stood. He asked me questions about my ex, previous relationships, we analyzed choices, and discussed options. Over the past year plus, as we’ve planned the upcoming ceremony (58 days), and continued and extensive discussion of what vows we want to take – not only because we care about the words we say, but because we care what those words mean – to both of us.
Forgiven. *smiles*
I’m glad there is someone else out there who is as anal about picking the correct words. I’ve always known that, should I get married, I am going to want to work out what is said with my partner.
And the music, definitely choosing the music. *grins*
Forgiven. *smiles*
I’m glad there is someone else out there who is as anal about picking the correct words. I’ve always known that, should I get married, I am going to want to work out what is said with my partner.
And the music, definitely choosing the music. *grins*
*applause*
:)
*Standing Ovation*
We’ve touched upon parts of this in recent conversations, but you’ve put it all together so eloquently into a world class rant.
I hope you were able to sleep well afterwards, you deserved it.
While I don’t have much to say, I would like to say I completely agree with you in pretty much every way.
One comment is, while it may be morally objectionable to get involved in a business deal with someone who has betrayed their spouse, I’ve found the case to be that often people are more loyal to money than they are to those they love. Granted, this only hold true if you’re MAKING money, as few will be willing to go down with the ship, but provided you are, there are times when you can trust people more in business dealings than in their personal life. As sad as that is.
That doesn’t mean, however, that I think it is right to do so. It’s just an observation on the loyalty some people exhibit.
Ultimately, unless you are involved in a situation there are very few ways of determining the accuracy of such things beyond self-admission. I certainly don’t expect to ask each person I go into business with if they are loyal to their partner.
The other side of the coin really comes into play if I’m already associated with them somehow.
Marriage is about maturity. You have to be grown up enough to understand the vow you make before you can truely make it.
Too many people never mature. They go about life oblivious to the world around them, to the feelings of those who surround them, and to the fact that they are not the center of the universe and that the world doesn’t stop and start according to their whim.
Being a grown up (in my mind, being a man (or woman)), means you understand the responsibility you choose to accept. You decide to give everything your all. You see things through until their end.
Marriage can be ended without the ‘death do us part’ thing. It happens, and i’d rather see a bad marriage end then continue with pain – but if someone decideds to end it, they better be at the end of their rope. They better have tried every possible means to solve the issue at hand, and they better be ending things for the other person (the, “I can’t give my all to you anymore, so I need to end this”).
Bravo and well said.
Being the victim of a situation just like you describe so well, I agree wholeheartedly. It’s not the leaving that is the despicable thing – it’s the sliming around behind their partner’s back, the lies, and the deliberate public humiliation of someone they promised to love and cherish. One would think that vows made in front of all of your friends and family would mean something, at least enough to deal with the person honestly and end the marriage before starting another relationship, but to some folks such as my ex, all that matters is their own convenience and wishes, consequences to others be damned.
Oathbreaker, I like that. Quite appropriate. I imagine once you break one oath such as is taken at a wedding, breaking others becomes quite easy, making trusting them in any way, business, personal, etc, a bad idea.
I’d have to throw my vote at the “right on” category.
I know a lot of people who struggled through this very topic and a lot of them learned their lessons… other’s said they did but repeated the behaviour later anyway. And it wasn’t any one gender either. Makes me wonder where exactly things went wrong in their upbringing? education? social network?
My mom and I had an unusually lengthy and bonding-type discussion the other day about our family. We’re lucky in that everyone loves to be around each other, but most of it isn’t very self-reliant, except her and myself.
It’s this idea that your own actions are your own responsibility and no one else’s. Even if you’ve been through terrible things, no one else is ultimately in control of your actions except for you.
I think that the biggest problem with people today is that they don’t actually examine both their past actions, and who they want to be. Even those who do so, rarely attempt to reconcile them by changing the way they behave. Most people walk around in a fog, getting pushed around by the winds of chance, and if that means some hot babe shows up at a party and wants to make out, so be it, they’ll justify it later.
It’s this idea that your own actions are your own responsibility and no one else’s. Even if you’ve been through terrible things, no one else is ultimately in control of your actions except for you.
Unfortunately, I think that’s the crux of a lot of societies problems these days. Whether it be in regards to marriage and the oaths contained within, or child-rearing, or whatever else people end up having to take responsibility in, I think we’ve managed, somehow, to become a society where we’ve decided that it’s NOT our responsibility. If you end up making out with some hot babe at a party, well, it’s not your fault, she instigated it. And you were drunk. Or high. Or… well… it doesn’t matter.
I wish we could figure out where this attitude came from, and how to deal with it. I think that would probably go a long way to making life better for just about everyone.
I think we’ve all been there at one point in our lives.. one side, the other or both.
I think it’s important to not only deal with the oath first but to give yourself time between it and starting something new. It’s so unfair to the 2nd person to live under the shadow for a while of the first person. I’ve been on both sides of it and it’s never easy or healthy.
I attended a wedding once where they charged the people that were there to take an active part in the marriage and making it work. I’ve taken it pretty seriously when I’ve been a part of the wedding party. (unfortunetely it hasn’t worked out so well) I think if I get married I will include it. Just like it takes the whole village to raise a child, it can take the whole community to help a relationship.
I think our world has been so into disposable items that everything has become that way. We throw away our children and our spouses. It’s easier to get rid of it then to clean it up. Two of my mom’s marriages lasted under a year each. Two more of them were under 4. She’s now seems to be finally getting it right. This is what I grew up with. So I tend to want to be the opposite. I want a marriage that lasts. Not all children of divorce are that way thou. A paraphased quote from a movie, said on her wedding day “I think I made a good choice for a first husband”
*s* Dave and Benny’s wedding was like that, with segments of the knotted rope given to each of the people standing up, and the families.
So I tend to want to be the opposite. I want a marriage that lasts. Not all children of divorce are that way thou.
I think a fair number of them are. I’ve seen my mom go through 2 husbands (my father and then my step-father) and I’ve seen numerous other marriages fail. I know that I have no plans to get married any time soon, mostly because I want to make sure that I get it right the first time if I do. And if that means never getting married, well, that’s a result. And I’m sure I’ll be able to live with it.
But I know other friends of mine, who came from divorced families, who feel similarly. Not all of them, no, but it seems to me that kids who watched their parents get divorced are more likely to wait for marriage than rush into it. Of course, I have no evidence to back this up, but from what I can tell personally, it seems to hold true.
WOW, as someone who values honor above many things, this post has been the best laid out I have ever seen. I hope people who are in situations like you described can take a lesson and improve. I commend you. I swear you should write a book, I have seen you give some of the best advice on many a topic…maybe have your own Dear Scott…site.
Thanks! :)
Very interesting. Well-argued and tempered. Clearly the result of a lot of thought and analysis across different situations and life-experiences. Well done.
I would add, in a religious sense–that this applies to Waterkin as well as Spouses. Oaths taken between Waterkin are sacred, are witnessed by the Gods and Gaia….
…. and one could ask the same question for it: “Does s/he have my back”
I am very aware of handfasting, and I saw a reference to Waterkin in your description of Starwood, but I do not know what Waterkin is. Care to enlighten me?
Depending on your religion – there’s also baptism.
Another important event, with not only parents but also sponsors, promise in front of God, family and friends to provide love, care, and support for this child’s emotional, physical and religious well-being.
I’ve never taken being a godmother lightly. I’ve even realized that if anything ever happened to Carrie and Dave, I might very well take in all 5 children, so they could stay together, although I’m only technically Brendan’s godmother. This is not something I agreed to do lightly, although I couldn’t imagine saying no, either.
I’ve thought a lot lately about the sanctity of marriage, and just had a long conversation with a client recently going through a divorce. I find it all to be rather scary, but agree with you wholeheartedly on the idea of releasing each other from the bonds respectfully, without first breaking your oaths.
*added to memories*
thank you. very well said.
*squeeze* Thanks, sam. :)
I know this is all about me! *sob*
;)
*grins* Well, you -were- mentioned in the commentary, somewhere. :)