Let’s talk, shall we?
This is me at my most direct and bare, so if the topic gives you the heebs, I put it under an LJ-cut, just for you.
I take issues of abuse personally. There is a history of abuse in my family. I’ve struggled with acknowledging its role in my own life, permanently altered.
Of all the women in my life that I’ve known well enough to intimately discuss abuse, I can count on two hands the ones who have -not- been abused, and scant few of those are in my own family. I’ve been the confidante for countless friends, family members, and partners that have relived their experiences, that have had flashbacks, that have had to go through the trauma of court proceedings and confrontations.
But I have also known men who have been abused – physically, emotionally, sexually. They rarely speak of it, let alone admit the impact it has had on their lives. I’ve known women who have been abused by other women.
The problem is abusive behavior. Reactionary, prejudiced commentary that promotes sexist stereotypes does nothing to find a solution for anyone – abusive people, people who have been abused, or those who want to prevent abuse in their own lives. Instead, it takes the problem – that an individual has taken something they have no right to take – and turns it into a different problem – gender segregation.
I’m very aware of the statistical averages of -declared- abuse, which does not take into account the potential for a skewed number based on how particular groups (say, children) feel shame in comparison to others who have had media attention and a concerted effort by progressive groups to say it is okay to say out loud that you have been abused.
I am also aware that I am male. Living in a family that is nearly entirely female, I’ve gotten mighty used to being the exception. Sometimes, I feel a sense of pride that people are constantly saying, “You aren’t like any guy I’ve known.” It’s always meant as a compliment, but what does that presume? It presumes that whatever good thing I am, other men are not.
It is hurtful for me to feel like I have to compensate for the sins of an entire gender. Every single human being has to make their own choices, and if I can be a normal, caring, rational and moral human being, especially with the genetic father I had, so can anyone else.
I don’t believe in original sin. I don’t believe in accepting the sin of another person because they are like you, because they are related to you. I don’t believe in it, but I am burdened with it anyway.
So post your meme, and remember that when you don’t account for the exception, when you don’t care about the difference between ALL men and a man, or between ALL women and a woman, you are painting me with a very large, very ugly brush. And I am offended.
EDIT: This is one example of the meme (don’t attack that person if you disagree with it, it’s just one reposting among many). This is a version by publiusfestus that I can get behind.
ALSO: I really appreciate those of you who’ve put this meme behind an LJ-cut. Many people out there are extremely sensitive to the topic of rape, and would rathermuch like to not run into a “trigger” on their friends list, which they expect to be a safe haven.
A thoughtful rant. Thanks for posting it.
I’ve felt and experienced much the same thing, internally, and socially. As someone who has had male friends abused by women, vice-versa and as someone who was almost the victim of abusive conduct from another male a decade ago, I have pretty strong feelings on the issue.
Also, I feel the contours of sexism and patriarchy doubling back to bite me in the ass too, because I have experienced that both of those aspects condition, constrict, and harm men who wish to resist certain powerful cultural norms of masculinity and forge alternative paths. There are cultural currents that make it particularly easier for men to be abusers than women, and I’ve seen some men succumb to taking undue advantage when they can, simply because they could. There is a role for gender here, but its not as simple as just blaming one gender and valorizing a neighboring gender. Oversimplfying the problem won’t help anyone.
As a Pagan man, I’ve witnessed social conduct, especially at festivals, that makes me very uncomfortable, and sets a stage for abuse to take place. I think everyone has a role to play to mitigate these social currents, partially in terms of gender authority, but also just as individuals working towards a common goal of a respectful world for Selves and Others.
I agree, particularly with your final comment. While it is fair to look at the trend of sexual abuse in terms of cultural significance, ultimately each individual person who accepts those particular values (or lack thereof) is at fault, and not the entire gender. Similarly, our culture is what it is – it is deeply flawed and conflicted and many of us strive to change it in conflicting ways that are unlikely to easily resolve themselves – ultimately, though, we each choose what to accept in that din, and what to reject.
Our biggest contemporary cultural flaw, in my opinion, is a lack of personal responsibility.
thanks for say what i couldn’t find the right words to express myself
Hrm. I have many thoughts about this. What I am going to say is this: it’s very easy to come out and say that one is against rape or abuse or [insert bad behavior here] The difficult thing is to actually talk about it in a meaningful way. I suppose the meme thing is doing its job in that here we are talking about it, but I’m also somewhat disturbed that a lot of the repostings of the meme I’ve seen are done with comments disabled. If it’s important enough to copy and paste it should be important enough to discuss. Maybe I’m wrong.. I dunno.
I’ve seen the same, and I do agree that if this is important enough of an idea to spread, it is valuable to have an actual dialogue about it.
The problem with talking about negative behavior in a meaningful way is that you have to go as far back to the root and discuss it that way before moving forward, because we often have very different ideas about things such as personal responsibility vs cultural responsibility, family history and genetic predisposition, gender/ethnicity/class/intelligence/socialization significance, let alone rehabilitation vs punishment. That turns a very short comment into a very long dialogue, but even in a fairly narrow subset of the culture (like our particularly liberal set of friends), we can not say that we all agree on the initial terms of the discussion, let alone the conclusions we come to.
one of the reasons i posted the meme w/o comments allowed is that i posted it public. there’s an army of weirdos/un-friended folks that read my journal would use that posting as a “why did you de-friend me? wah wah wah” place rather than for meaningful discussion. i agree, though, with your sentiments that it has gotten people talking, and that really is half the battle.
Hear, hear. I expressed the same hurt/dismayed/offended opinions when, in reaction to the Marc Lepine massacre, a campus feminist group made a point of generalising this sad sac into a generic icon of male repression.
Dammit, that’s not me. Stop trying to fit me into the same wife-beater shirt. I thought the whole point was to get people to treat each other as individuals and not objects… objectifying males as default abusers does NOT forward this.
— Steve’s okay with protests against ALL forms of abuse. Just don’t smear him with that tarred brush, okay?
“I thought the whole point was to get people to treat each other as individuals and not objects… objectifying males as default abusers does NOT forward this.”
I really like that statement.
In addition to this, a personal bit.
After my incident where I was attacked (and decided to stop putting up with it) I called the police. The police came, they took her away. She came back, and they had to come again.
When I called the next day to file a restraining order the officer was belligerant. “What’s the police report number?” I wasn’t given one, and they didn’t file one. “Well so you’re saying they came out and had to take her away. Why didn’t you do anything about it?” I had to explain that it would look very different if had fully defended myself or extracted her. “Well then you need to come down and file a police report. Then you need to press charges, which you’re going to have a hard time proving because there’s nothing on file.”
I lived under my desk at work that week.
The funny thing now is if you go to the former group of mutual online friends many of them believe that I was the abuser in spite of:
1) Getting hit on my bike while she was driving
2) Having an alarm clock shatter and put a hole in a wall where my head was supposed to be
3) Pulling shards of glass out of my feet for weeks after the above incident.
Robert Anton Wilson has several well thought out rants about how it’s not so much that we’re teaching people that hate is wrong, but that they should determine which type of hate is fashionable. It’s cool to hate Christians because look at all the hateful acts of religious persecution they perform. It’s cool to hate men because they’re abusers and rapists. Stupid cycles.
Thank you, sincerely, for adding your story to the commentary, and particularly for that idea regarding fashionable and unfashionable hatred. I hadn’t heard that idea stated in such a way before, but I quite enjoy (not in -that- sense) the feel of it. I can’t say that it isn’t true.
I am not a man, and I have suffered abuse at the hands of men, but I certainly like to think I do not blame or expect ALL men to be held accountable for that. I am a believer in individual credit or blame for individual behavior, and it really bothers me when men are painted as all having the potential – no, the liklihood of abusing someone. Though I certainly know some men that I would steer well clear of due to the distinct indications that they don’t respect other people, most of the men I know are loving, respectful, and decent. So, my general take on men is the same as for women: they are fine and fair until they prove themselves otherwise.
A litle off subject but along the same theme, I am often painted with the “woman” brush. You know, spends too much, vain, bad driver. None of which describes me in the least, but I am assumed to be that by some people (those that I call sexist, even if it is a woman). And it irritates the hell out of me. Why can’t I been seen as an individual first, not a woman first, or a white person first, or a member of my family of origin? Grrr.
I feel your pain, atdt. Sounds like my old favorite, my “fairness” button. When things are not fair, I get really angry and defensive. And I think you can just not accept that burden you feel. Just let it go, hard as it is. Or keep trying anyway.
And thank you for the post.
I have not seen this meme. I am very curious about it now, but I am guessing I will be annoyed. Can anyone point me to it to satisfy my curiosity?
When I first read the meme in question, it left me with an unsettled feeling. I couldn’t quite place it at first, and then, when I re-read it, I saw the problem. It has a good message but it became a lecture for men and this is a people problem. The problem goes further than what the meme preaches.
You made an eloquent post and it made me rally to your cause. We started our friendship over a misunderstanding of gender issue and you’ve caused me to think before I speak regarding gender topics. Not everyone will understand, but I am glad that you speak out on gender issues to even the playing field.
As you and I have talked about in other places, it is an angrily idealistic meme that says “It’s not fair!” without admitting that of course it isn’t fair, but terrible people do terrible things, and appealing to their sense of fairness is as effective as rubbing a rabbit foot. Anything we can do individually to prevent abuse is better than insisting that it shouldn’t happen. Why drive into an intersection when you know someone is running the red light, on the principle that it isn’t fair?
I’m glad you’re right there with me. *hug*
I’d love a link to this meme so I can see what everyone’s talking about. :-)
I think part of the problem is that while everyone knows that men can suffer sexual abuse, rape is still generally classified as a “women’s issue.” While there are plenty of wonderful, caring, concerned men out there trying to stop it, for victims of both genders, I think that for *most* men (and yes, this is a generalization, but generalizations affect how we see the world, so it’s relevant) the issue isn’t one they think about much unless they or someone they know has been raped or sexually abused.
Whereas it’s something that’s in the back of most women’s minds any time they have to go to their car in a dark parking lot, or any time they forget to watch a guy they don’t know all that well carefully as he gets them a drink. And it’s something we get conflicting messages on when we go to college (“our campus is safe for women!”…”call SafeWalk for an escort if you have to go somewhere alone after dark”). And so on.
So while it is not exclusively a women’s issue, it gets treated as such.
And the truth is, as long as it continues to be treated as a women’s issue, when I have to walk home alone at night, I’m going to keep a suspicious eye on any male who walks too close to me for too long, in a way I wouldn’t with a woman. I’m going to watch carefully any time *any* guy I don’t know too well, regardless of how nice he seems, gets me a drink. Better safe than sorry, alas.
I hate to take a “you can’t trust ’em until you know them well” attitude toward half the population, but when you hear the statistic that one out of eight female students on my campus will be sexually assaulted during her time there — well, with statistics like *that,* suspicion is the logical course of action.
1 out of 8? Do you happen to have specific statistics for your campus?
(I’m just curious, because I believe that the national average is about 1 out of 3 collegiate women are assaulted.)
That’s what all the posters said.
*shrug*
It may have been specific to UW.
This would be the latest version of it that I’ve seen on my friends list.
I definitely understand the desire to be pragmatic. I find that the meme in question rejects a practical approach to keeping safe in what I’d term a short-sighted plea for fairness.
Any time someone says, “It’s not -fair- that I have to change my behavior when someone else is the problem! I feel like my grandmother must have felt when I was complaining about getting beat up in 4th grade. Of course it is totally unfair. Saying, “Don’t rape” is not going to change that, and meanwhile, actual practical methods of keeping safe are rejected for principle.
My best friend’s ex, Autumn, once said in all seriousness that if she was about to go through a light and someone else was running the red, she would keep going and get hit, because she had the right of way. She’d take that damage, entirely for the principle.
I feel the same about this meme, even though I understand that the gist of the meme was intended to be “stop blaming the victim, and blame the perpetrator.” (I of course heartily agree, individually speaking.)
Unfortunately, the meme comes off as “Stop blaming women, who are the victim. Blame men, who are the perpetrator.”
I’m avidly interested in whether you see the same difference between intent and portrayal that I do. *nod*
Unfortunately, the meme comes off as “Stop blaming women, who are the victim. Blame men, who are the perpetrator.”
I agree to a point, but I’d rephrase. The meme reads to me as, “Stop blaming the victim, who is always female; blame the perpetrator, who is always male.” I think that’s a subtle but important difference, but it’s still a dangerous message, because it communicates:
— Males can’t be victims.
— Females can’t be perpetrators.
The first message is unfortunate, and something I disagree with. The second message, though, is downright dangerous because it make encourage someone to get into a position with their guard down.
On the other hand, I do understand the sentiment to a degree. If 90% of kitchen fires are caused by gas stoves and 10% by electric stove, it seems safer to get an electric stove. But it’s not perfectly safe, just safer.
Thanks for linking me to the meme in question, and I apologize for taking so long to get back to it.
Funny, I did not read the meme that way you did at all, which probably has a whole lot to do with my being a woman. I did not see it as blaming men – just rapists and potential rapists. I think the words “woman” and “her” and certainly the line about “tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it’s not okay to rape someone” maybe got to you, and I agree it should be a gender neutral piece. Do you think if it were, it would have made a difference? Because I agree perpetuating the blame either way is bad – blame is not about love, and love is what heals.
I agreed with the premise that we spend too much time trying to educate women in how to protect themselves (you should SEE how much crap I get in my inbox about this sort of thing) and not enough time in educating impressionable people about what rape is and that it is wrong. I think the line “don’t perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions” really says it all, and quite possibly should have been the only message. It really is what you said, Scott, about individuals being different, and that they have the power to be caring, responsible individuals. Be it man or woman, boy or girl.
I think that for *most* men … the issue isn’t one they think about much unless they or someone they know has been raped or sexually abused.
While I agree, I think there’s also a cycle here. As the issue continues to be identified as a woman’s issue, those men who are victimized continue to recede into a shadow of personal shame, while the women who are victimized continue to be public about their experiences, and it becomes that much more of a women’s issue. Also, I think there’s even an element where “men rape women” starts to sink into the minds of certain men, who come to think they’re not enough of a man until they’ve raped someone — it’s a form of gender initiation, as loathesome as that seems.
My first thought with this is that I want to hug you. I think that saying you aren’t like other men can have different shades to it. Sure, the statement itself is blanket, but the context in which it is said and the person who says it should at least move that blanket aside to show you how you aren’t like the others. I’m not saying this in a confrontational manner, merely speculative.
I’m a bit tired tonight, so maybe I completely missed the point of that. sorry. But, you are different from many others I have known. From what I gather just by getting to know you here, you have a capacity to listen and understand far beyond many in our age group. That is rare at any age though. Few people are able to put their bias aside for the sake of conversation. Even if it’s something you can’t really relate to, you seem to understand, or at least try to understand what the other person is going through.
As far as abuse goes, it’s something I’ve been giving a lot of thought to lately. Abuse in my own life, that is. I wonder how I may have grown up had any of that not happened. I also think about what it would be like to speak about my experiences to groups of people. I’d like to write childrens books about it too. I don’t really think there are many about what I dealt with…if any at all.
So, Scott, you are special. period.
i read this yesterday but was gone ’til today and i’m just now getting caught up and didn’t want to let this go. i will go back and add the lj-cut, but i will not take my posting down, and i’m not going to alter the wording. i do agree with some of the alterations that have been made, as anyone is capable of abusing or being abused. but when i posted the meme, i was reminded again of very specific friends that have survived rape. i was immediately taken back to the phone calls and the tears and being too far away to do anything but cry. it is in their honor that i leave the wording intact.
I did not make my commentary as an attack, but as my perspective on the meme and both its intended meaning and its literally defined meaning.
I did not ask that you change your post, particularly because it is your journal and your right to post what you wish. That said, this is my reaction , though you were not the first nor last to post it in my friends list, and you were definitely not the instigator of my commentary.
I am intellectually curious (again, honestly, not as preparation for argument) as to why the specific wording of the original post honors those friends, and a changed post where gender was not specified does not.
How does it honor someone to discourage people from telling a woman methods for avoiding rape?
You know, I started typing a reply which began with, “I, thankfully, am not a victim of physical abuse…” but realized that, okay, perhaps I am. Even though I don’t consider it so because I don’t remember it, I probably lost my virginity my first time drinking hard liquor, blacked out in the back seat of a car. The guy was scum, and I verbally let him have it a year or two later for pulling that shit. He claimed that he was really drunk, too, but I didn’t buy that for a millimoment. I found peace with it without much difficulty. The other time was the use of excessive force (being too physical in a matter which hurt me), and I dropped that dude instantly and told his friends what he did, which made THEM want to kick his ass.
Besides those – one of which I don’t remember, and the other which I don’t consider to be that hugely serious of an issue – nothing has happened. I have never been attacked, mugged…nothing – and I used to be in some dangerous neighborhoods, hanging out with some shady people. On the other hand, my old best friend has been raped numerous times, walking down the street. And I know a couple of men who were mentally, emotionally, and physically abused by girlfriends – one who claimed to be a champion of battered women! So I’m quite familiar with the range of offenses and the gender neutrality (and simultaneous bias) in this.
I see the meme as just one perspective of a plethora of violent crimes; to reword it would enlarge that perspective.