On love, respect, fidelity, possession
As always, and particularly when I used the discussion/rant tag, I appreciate any commentary you wish to add. Nothing dramatic has occurred, I just like to talk and think about these things:
A friend was remarking to me about how her boyfriend sees me as threatening to some extent, and we both lamented it because frankly, I’m a threat to no relationship. I’m not interested in breaking anyone out of any relationship, and I am the picture of self-restraint (these days). I don’t cross any boundaries I’m aware of, because I’ve crossed them before, when I was younger, and found out exactly how painful that can be.
I don’t want a friendship or relationship at the expense of someone else’s, and I consider that the only proper way to behave. Just as I would lose all respect for someone who seriously tried to seduce me while I was in my own monogamous relationship.
Why would I want to be a party to someone going against their word? And why would I do such a thing in order to take someone’s partner, as if them breaking their word against someone else wasn’t a direct example of what they’d be capable of with me?
Even beyond that, I’m not interested in asking someone I care about to leave someone else. Life is too short to pine over people who are taken: it’s selfish and disrespectful of a person’s right to make their own decisions.
I could let it trouble me. It isn’t the first time I’ve heard this, though it usually reaches me second-hand instead of directly. Instead, I’ve decided I shall take men ‘seeing me as a threat’ as the highest compliment they’re comfortable paying me. Even if it’s woefully misguided and introduces awkwardness where it isn’t necessary. Fortunately, this has yet to negatively impact my close and warm friendships with women. I should thank those women for being frank with me about those situations, so that I can be careful not to step on any toes.
Another friend, when discussing this idea, said, “I think it’s a matter not of you going after a women, but how the woman reacts to you.” She continued, “[My husband] was nervous at first, seeing how he could tell I felt something real for you. But his compliment to you is trust.”
I really like that. There is no question, I would rather have that trust, friendly affection and respect than a have a lover, and relationships like the one I have with that wonderful girl show me that it really is okay to be my affectionate self, and that it’s okay to love people without possessing them.
You know, you’re an amazing guy, with an openness, patience and maturity that I would respect anywhere I saw it, but especially added with your intelligence and communication. Anyways…
Being able to love someone without possessing them… or at least the desire to possess them, the gut-kick one can feel when they realize it’s not possible… is hard. But, if one *can* get past it, I feel they can really live a much fuller life. When you open yourself to love, you open yourself to joy, whether sex is involved or not. But if you’re in a position where you love many, and yet all of them have “primaries” that are not you… I can’t imagine that that wouldn’t pull at your heart once in a while. It’s taken me a while to reconcile the various loves I feel in my heart, and to not need to possess them, but only savor their existence in my life.
As for you being a threat to a relationship.. the threat is not YOU, its the two people in the relationship unable to communicate or understand each other’s different views on the matter, and possibly not being able to compromise or even talk about it at all(I’m not talking about any specific example here, just the general possibility). You, like you said, are not going to go in there and try and *tempt* someone to do something they have said they won’t. You have too much respect for people to do that. The only ones who can ruin a relationship are the two in it. At least that’s what I think, when you’re involved.
I’ve met no one like you before, who can give the way you do, without asking anything in return. And yet, because you *don’t* ask, I think you receive exactly what you need. Freely given, and breaking no one’s self-imposed or jointly-compromised rules. In many ways, I’m jealous of YOU.
I take much joy in your existence, Mr. Skennedy. *hugs tight*
*hugs* Thank you, sweetie, I take joy in yours. :)
“the threat is not YOU, its the two people in the relationship unable to communicate or understand each other’s different views on the matter, and possibly not being able to compromise or even talk about it at all”
*nod* I think communication is really the issue. When I meet someone that I really come to care about, I try to make sure and meet their significant other for just that reason. I want them to see that I’m a normal person, I’m not pretending they don’t exist, and that I want exactly what they want – for their partner to be happy, and I’m not interested in taking them away.
I’d say that nearly every single time, this does have at least some good effect, if not a great result. Occasionally, it’s even led to me forming a closer friendship with the partner than with the original friend. That’s what I concentrate on, this idea that it is natural to question motivations and intentions, and it requires strong and frank communication in order to ease that tension, y’know? And of course, sometimes you just can’t, and that has to be accepted, too.
Ok. My thoughts.
I have a darling best friend, whom you are aware of. Who I love, adore, cherish, all that jazz. Also, as you know there has resently been some… difficulties that could place issue between him and my darling husband.
They like each other as men. They both understand why the other loves me. They both know the other is good for me.
There are times of tension. Ok, understood. There’s times of tension in EVERY relationship. Have there been times when the other wondered if there was going to be a gauntlent thrown? I’m sure there has. There have been times when the one has been FURIOUS with the other over something that’s been done concerning me. I’ve seen it all.
But when it comes down to the line, here’s what I see – what I think makes this little… triangle, for lack of better words, work:
1. Trust. We each trust each other. It’s not always easy, but above that trust there’s a belief that we all only want whats best for everyone in the situation. Do at times our emotions get the better of us? Yes. We work through it.
2. Love is not Possesion. Love is Freedom. Love is Respect. Love is Honesty. Love is being able to say to completely contradictory things one after the other, and hope the other person understands. It’s also understanding when they want to chuck the you out the window for it.
3. Love is about Understanding. Or at least, trying too. Sometimes that means stepping outside your personal boxes so people can live their life as they need too.
4. Do we really want anyone in our lives, close to us, that can’t respect our choices, try to understand them, and love us for them all – good and bad? It’s not easy, but I think it’s probably worth it. We have to also remember to respect our friends and partners choices for thier lives. They are just trying to do their best.
I don’t understand possiveness. I never have. I’m not built for it.
Jealousy, for me, only comes up as insecurity when I’m not sure where I stand in someone’s heart and life. When that’s unclear I can sometimes become jealous over others taking my place. I’m human. I’m learning to deal with it.
Have I ever felt threatened by someone else in my spouse/partner/lover’s lives? No. Because either they love me or they don’t – and that has everything to do with them and me, not them and anyone else.
I am rarely jealous without a circumstance leading me in that direction. If I’m dating someone who has misdirected, neglected to mention, or otherwise avoided an honest and frank discussion about any number of factors, concern and doubt grows.
But that’s the way I am in general – I share, and want someone to share themselves with me. Not share the shell of their exterior life, not share certain components – I want someone who delights in my desire to dive in deep and get to know them in a way no one else does, and who enjoys doing the same with me.
People who must keep parts of themselves -to- themselves in order to “retain their identity”, who must keep secrets about who they are to feel autonomous, they and I would not work out, ultimately, no matter how much love and lust we share.
Life is short, and eventually, I will die, and those parts of me that I hid from everyone else in the world will be as if they never existed at all.
Life is short, and eventually, I will die, and those parts of me that I hid from everyone else in the world will be as if they never existed at all.
Amen brother. Preach it.
i love the idea that some of those parts of me will be as if they never existed. it kind of leaves a light at the end of the self loathing tunnel.
Ok…
I agree that love should exist without possession. I also feel that men and women should be able to be friends with each other.
However, we must keep in mind that feelings are, at the very least, a bit unpredictable …especially when they are strong. We must also learn to accept that negative emotions will exist as long as positive ones do. No one should feel guilty for feeling anything, negative or positive. The idea is to make sure your emotions don’t control you. “If you do not master your rage, your rage will become your master” — The Sphinx (Mystery Men)
Furthermore, if you’re not careful, men and women being best friends with one another can be dangerous. The more time you spend with someone, the greater chance there is of feelings developing …like I said, feelings can be unpredictible. One should make sure the person they spend the most time with is there significant other. It would reduce the chances of “an accident.”
There should be trust involved in a relationship …this is true. However, jealousy is a perfectly natural emotion even if it is negative. In fact, I would be worried if my S.O. didn’t ever feel jealous. One should only feel guilty if they let such emotions affect their actions. For example, with your situation, it is perfectly fine for him to feel bit threatened. It is NOT fine for him to act threatened and treat you and her as though you are a threat. I’d like to emphasize the difference there.
Also, I can say that I have felt a tiny bit jealous with how you and interact. That just means that I care about her. However, I trust her greatly and I trust you as well. I would never let those feelings affect my actions or even my perceptions of the situation.
I consider you to be my friend.
Thank you for responding, and thanks for your friendship!
The key is that emotions do not determine behavior. There is no such thing as an accident, as Bruce willis says in The Last Boy Scout. “Oops, I slipped and fell, and accidentally stuck my **** in your wife!”
People love each other. People are attracted to each other, even sexually, and I think, as you point out, that it is vital for living a reasonably happy life that a person understands that you’re totally justified in feeling anything, and that controlling your actions (and thus your own life) is vital.
“if you’re not careful, men and women being best friends with one another can be dangerous. The more time you spend with someone, the greater chance there is of feelings developing …like I said, feelings can be unpredictible. One should make sure the person they spend the most time with is there significant other. It would reduce the chances of “an accident.””
While I do prefer that my significant other and I be best friends, and I like to socialize together whenever possible, I also think that it is necessary to cultivate trust and open communication, and that if you can’t trust your partner to stick with your relationship, fearing that with enough exposure, they will leave you (this is definitely a “general” you, not you specifically) for someone else, that really has more to do with self-esteem and the quality of the relationship, rather than about that other person.
Jealousy is a natural human emotion, and should be addressed regularly. Mistrust is a problem, and points to a communication/rules/understanding problem that is vital to correct for a relationship to actually grow.
At least, that’s my opinion. :)
“If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it is yours. If not, it never was.”
I have always loved this line. I suggests that you have to trust in your love in order to truly possess it, because you can only possess it if you first understand that it is not something you can grasp on your own but has to be freely given. It is a gift.
Love should never be about possession. It cannot be commanded. Of course, that is also what makes it so prone to jealousy. It is never a guarantee. One thing is certain, at least in my mind, love cannot live or grow without an equal measure of respect.
As most know, the honey and I have an open relationship. We’ve got rules that each have to follow when dealing with relationships outside our own but even when all of “the rules” have been respeced, we’ve had our ups and downs. Even through the times when things have been down, we have both agreed that it is a freedom that we value and are willing to work towards together, equally. I can’t say that I haven’t been bad tempered and jealous a few times, and he can’t say the same. The most important thing for us is to keep the lines of communication open.
I admit that I had a fear of being put by the wayside when the honey started seeing someone on a semi-regular basis. Now that it has been a while, I have seen that there is no threat there and never was. Sometimes it’s nice to have someone to help me take care of my high-maintenance sweetheart. *smiles fondly* It is so hard to trust when emotions come into play, but (to be cliche) it “takes two to tango.” If you trust your partner, and I feel that is essential to a lasting relationship, then there should be no lasting damage to their caring about or even loving someone else, and hopefully the very opposite.
There are so many types of love in this world. Love is one of those nebulous things that was never meant to have rules or shackles.
Gah. I’m having one of those moments where there is so much I want to say simmering down there but I can’t put it into words that anyone else would understand. Maybe more later if I can sort things out.
I can relate. I have a friend who I’ve known for some 6 odd years, and is probably my best friend. She’s also a girl. This has naturally led to ex-boyfriends assuming that she’s got something going on the side, and just about all of them have assumed when they broke up that we’d be going out.
This amuses us to no end.
In the words of the immortal Jack Handy, “If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn’t, hunt it down and kill it.” I prefer the original version of that proverb.
Your demon seems to be doing tech support. :D I think that’s quite fitting.
Also, thanks :) I’m glad that, if I’m a total nutter, at least I’m not alone :D