CSL iss at it again
She’s kindly left a christmas card for each and every one of us in the department. Other than the company itself, she’s the only person to do so.
It says,
We sing “Joy to the world”
And “Silent Night”
As the earth welcomes Jesus,
Our Redeemer and Light.
We shout “Glory to God”
And ask “Peace and Good Will”
For the BLESSING OF GOD [emphasis theirs]
Is with all of us still!
Inside, it says “Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace on earth to all whom God favors. Luke 2:14 NLT”
This is the kind of thing that makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable. First, because I feel coerced by a statement that says “This is what We Do”, as if doing anything else is unquestionably wrong. Sociologically speaking, that’s how we teach children how to operate in society – do what the rest of us do, and you’ll understand it later.
Second, and more importantly, I find myself offended by the quote. “Peace on earth to all who God favors.”
From what I gathered, that wasn’t ol’ J.C.’s way. As far as I can tell, he wouldn’t be cracking open a sixer in his barcalounger, secure in the knowledge that while people are dying in agony in the countries of the non-believers, His People are at peace. Maybe I’m wrong – maybe he did say the equivalent. If so, though, my opinion of his ethics sure took a nosedive.
I am happy for her to celebrate her religion – and if she wants representations of it in her cubicle and people ask her about it, I’m okay with that. But if I was jewish (for example) and received a “jesus is the reason for the season!” card, would I feel nothing but alienation and disregard for my own Reason for the Season? I think not being jewish or wiccan or buddhist doesn’t exclude me from that feeling of being carpet-bombed by someone else’s beliefs without respect for my own.
I should say that I have received plenty of holiday cards that are religious in nature, and many of them have been respectful. But I got them at home, and they weren’t implying that non-believers should suffer.
P.S. I find it fascinating and wonderful that I have so many friends of such diverse religions. I’d really love to hear your comments, but I insist you show respect for my friends (and by that, me).
That’s why I go totally for the farting Santa offenseive.
:) (most years)
But seriously, I think it is safer for my piece of mind to think of the message the gesture gives and not the meaning of the card.
Ask her if you can have her car and house when the rapture comes.
*chuckle*
LOL
First, I’m agnostic/athiest (defined as agnostic with athiest tendencies). My husband is athiest. We both grew up in ‘Christian’ homes, mine as Mormon and I think his family is Methodist, I can’t honestly remember.
While I respect anyone’s religious beliefs, I do get offended at how it is seemingly common to assume that most everyone around is Christian. I get it all the time, and in a respectful way, I won’t hesitate to correct people when they assume that about me.
I also get offended at how many people accept for our government to promote Christian type ideals and with that, allow them to speak for the country as a whole. When I testify in court, I am asked to swear on a Bible and when I pay in cash, I am passing a note to someone saying “in God we trust”.
Same with the Pledge of Allegiance. But I won’t go there right now for the sake of the fact that I’m not going to argue or debate ;)
I get religous holiday cards and try to not let them offend me. Like you said, ones like you received at work are just, in my opinion, outright disrespectful and rude. And while I appreciate the thought of someone taking the time to give me a card, I’d probably return that one solely based on the fact that you are saying to me what that card states… I’m in need of suffering because I don’t believe in “your god”.
But that’s just my opinion. I admit I can be touchy about religion simply because if you sway from the “norm” you tend to get beat around a lot, and we do since we live in a typical southern, Christian saturated area and have to struggle with it on a daily basis. And I honestly do respect anyone’s wishes to believe in what they want to believe. You respect my beliefs, and I totally respect yours ;) It is what makes us all different and beautiful.
I just wish people would be a little more open minded and realize that good people are good people, no matter what they chose to have faith in.
The ‘In God We Trust’ was a relatively late addition to the currency. It didn’t appear on any currency until 1864, and it didn’t appear on all currency until 1957. BTW, you are by no means required to use Federal Reserve notes or coins. If you prefer, use a private currency such as the Liberty Dollar.
I just looked up the Liberty Dollar website. I’d heard the name before but really didnt know what it was (or that it wasn’t some collector’s item from the mint, anyway)
I can only imagine that using that would mean you’d have to explain it every time you bought something with it. I could be wrong… but if I worked in a store and someone handed it to me, I’d be real hesitant to take it because I’ve never seen it before.
Do you have any experience with using them? It is interesting, regardless. Thanks for mentioning it.
I have no direct experience with Liberty Dollars. I keep thinking I’ll buy some to use around town, but I don’t get to it. There’s no trick, though; in the US, 2 people may use anything on which they both agree as payment. You can buy a car with chickens, if the dealer so allows. Several years ago, a woman won a lawsuit against a car dealer who offered to take coupons against the price of the car. She brought in enough coupons to cover all of it, and held him to it. So, if someone offered to pay you in Liberty dollars, it’s up to you (or the business owner) whether you accept it as payment. There’s no penalty (or benefit other than making the sale) for doing so.
In my opinion, holiday cards given to co-workers should be secular. It’s not like they aren’t available; there are plenty of “Happy Holiday” cards that don’t have references to any particular faith. To me, work just isn’t the place to push a religious agenda.
With cards mailed to me at home, that’s another story. I’ve gotten one from my aunt that has the typical manger scene. I’ve gotten cards for the holidays that are religious in nature. Fine. All of them were from friends or family, people whose beliefs I know and respect, and who I have no problem in sending a card back with a big honkin’ pentacle on the front, with “Happy Yule” on the inside. I get religious cards from people I would be comfortable engaging in a discussion about our different faiths. My co-workers, with one exception, do not fall in that category.
I guess that’s my biggest problem with getting stuff with strong religious overtones from the people I work with: I wouldn’t feel comfortable opening that particular can of worms in the workplace. With my friends and family, that’s fine; most of them know about my faith, have known me for forever, or are blood relatives. I can get into a heated debate with friends and family, knowing that we’ll either reach some middle ground or agree to disagree or something, because that’s what friends and family do. And if we don’t, if it’s a breaking point, then we can go our separate ways. With co-workers, regardless of whether we agree, disagree, or hate each other’s views completely, we’re stuck together for at least 8 hours a day. I like my job, I like the people I work with, and I’m really not going to start an argument over faith, which to many is such a hot-button issue that rational discourse is next to impossible, with someone whose background I know little about and who I’m stuck next to every day. That has too much potential to turn my job into a living hell.
So, to conclude a long and rambling comment, I have no real problem with religious holiday cards. I just think that they are inappropriate for the workplace. Faith is too personal, too varied, too unpredictable to shove one person’s beliefs under the noses of co-workers.
I think that was pretty coherent, and encapsulates my thoughts rather well, too.
well said! :)
It seems that you’re assuming the phrase “all whom God favors” means “all who favor God.” I’m of the mind that He blesses everyone at times, even those who don’t believe in Him at all.
But, of course, YMMV. :)
When praising God for being all-loving, I would presume that does not mean “all-loving sometimes, except those folk over there who don’t deserve it.” If there are no limitations to love, it is what it is, and if there are, it sounds distinctly human to me.
Saying “all whom God favors” specifically implies that there are those who god does NOT favor. Otherwise, there is no reason to structure a sentence that way.
I read it the same way you read it- it is implicit in the statement “all whom God favors” that there are those who God does not favor.
Yikes! I’m open about being pagan at work and most people respect that. I still get holiday cards but nothing overly religious. I believe, as seems to be the general consensus thus far, that secular holiday cards are appropriate in the workplace but “Christmas Cards” are not. Thus said, I try to remember other people’s non-Xmas, non-Yule holidays and send them cards as well – Chanukkah and Eid especially.
What is Eid?
Eid is the celebration at the end of Ramadan for Muslims. :)
Oh! Well now I know!
maybe they forgot the comma….”all, whom God favors.”
Next year, I’m sending Flickr photo cards.
Ooh, that’d be cool. I can think of a few photos :D
I consider the source and the message before I respond. Is this a person who is trying to include me in their holiday celebration? If so, then I have no problem with the card (or whatever). Are they trying to convert me to their religion and/or viewpoint? Then I have a big problem with it.
Imagine being handed a Hanukkah card, or a Beltane card, or some other religion’s card … how would you feel? I get annoyed with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, because they’re always trying to convert me to their religion. I have very little problem with Quakers and the Salvation Army, because they don’t try to convert; they just do what they do. Most other religions fall somewhere in between. A while ago, I realized it wasn’t religious people in general that bugged me, it was Evangelists: People who were trying to convert me. (In many ways, the Atheist Evangelists are the worst.)
I know Jews who get upset when they get Christmas cards, and other Jews who don’t. I know Christians who get annoyed when they receive Hanukkah cards, and others who don’t. I know people of other religions who get annoyed when they get any sort of religious card at all. I know people of no religion who get upset when they don’t receive any holiday cards at all.
Bottom line: You get to pick when to be upset, and when not to be upset. It’s your choice.
I find, for myself, that the fact that it is religious doesn’t bother me, and the flavor of religion doesn’t bother me, but the relationship we have (IE business-only) and the content of the message, they bother me.
She is, by her own definition, evangelical.
I am non-evangelical christian who married a bitter, cynical atheist. And he is the worst- and we no longer discuss religion without a referee.
well said. I totally agree. Even in the workplace; for me, if I receive a card, whatever the religion, as long as it’s well-wishes and non-converting, then I choose to see it as a good thing, a compliment that they were thinking about me (to whatever degree, it’s more than not).
I’m a Christian, even evangelical I would say, but I don’t just buy ‘religious’ cards… for the most I might buy serious religious cards for serious fellow Christians, but I’ll buy humorous religious cards, humorous secular cards, and even generic non-religious cards… it all depends on who I’m giving them to. But that’s just how I conduct my card-giving :).
Like I said, if I receive a card from some other religion, where the person is genuinely showing appreciation, in whatever form, I consider that a good thing, even if I don’t associate with their religion.
Like you say, you pick when to be upset and when not upset. Wherever you may be at the moment :)
Firstly, you need to stop using pictures of other people as your LJ icon. I think I’m responding to the wrong goddamn people. :P
Secondly, I would take the card up to the person, point out the phrase about peace to all of Jesus’ homies, and be like, “Did you intend to give me a card that says I don’t deserve peace and happiness? Because that’s what you’ve done.” And then the conversation would ensue.
This kind of shit makes me spoil for a fight.
Doesn’t much matter, she works with her too, and thinks the same as I do. :)
Much of what J.C. taught was radically misinterpreted and often enough skewed by even his disciples following his death (or transfiguration, for the believers). J.C. taught tolerance, peaceful coexistence and salvation for those who practiced what he preached (even if they didn’t realize it).
The ‘Reason for the Season’ in fact is that winter is when we need hope and love the most. The Holy Roman Empire established December 25th as Christmas…strangely close to the winter solstice wouldn’t you say?
And unsurprisingly on the same day that the primary god of their army, Mithras, was supposedly born to a virgin, brought forth by a chief father diety to save the world. After all, if you want to keep the throne, you must keep the army…
*waves*
I find it offensive as a christian. really offensive, to be honest.
You’re totally right about the teachings originally attributed to Jesus. It’s incredibly frustrating to translate directly from the old greek to someone who doesn’t care what the books originally said and only cares that their priest tells them to hate.
I’m not offended by genuine well-wishes. When we get religious cards from my husband’s grandma, I shake my head and put it on the mantle over the television (the modern hearth…) with the others. But it’s a nice gesture on her part and that’s what it’s meant as.
Considering what you’ve said about this woman, though, I’d probably go out and get the most non-Christian all-loving touchy feely liberal witchy solstice card I could find (even though I don’t have a winter holiday and am not Wiccan) — you know, the exact opposite of her card — and give it to her specially with little cutouts of pentacles and suns. I figure, people are like she is because they don’t truly understand what it’s like to be on the other end of their bullshit. Therefore, turnabout is not only fair play, it’s an attempt at giving her a valuable life lesson, as well as being satisfyingly eye-for-an-eye.