Mad World
I decided to test out the CD changer in the new car by putting in whatever I had handy, and since I cleaned out my car, I found various CDs from the aborted “CD exchange” of years ago, and slipped in an MP3 disc.
This is why I found myself cheerily whistling the Gary Jules version of “Mad World” as I wheeled my camera case through the office this morning. I couldn’t help but giggle, inside, at the contrast between meaning and my expression. My favorite part of my “let’s dress up dead” days was my perky laugh-in-the-face-of-doom outlook.
Those of you who spent (or spend) their evenings (virtually) stomping the heart of your ex into jelly with your Doc Martens:
- What did (or does) “gothyness” mean to you?
- Did you (or would you, in hindsight) consider yourself a particular “type”, like PerkyGoth or IndustrialGoth or RaverGoth? Or did you grow up when black was black and white was lame, in the times when you wore velvet or leather or you went home in shame?
- How seriously did you take it all? Did you have a special name you used at the club?
- How do you feel about footwear? What is and isn’t acceptable stomping material?
- Goth in the workplace: did you? Do you? If so, what kind of workplace?
- Do you still go to CityClub (or your local variant), or is that something you’re happy to leave behind? If you do, do you still dress up, or do you go in jeans, too old hat to care?
- More important than anything else: How many ankhs did you own?
PS for those of you who were asking about my green hair, well… there you go.
What did (or does) “gothyness” mean to you?
(“White on black translucent capes…” In hindsight, goth meant listening to creepy music, hanging out with people whose cynicism at society matched my own, celebrating dark things and trying to get some ass from girls who, now that I think about it, were either not into guys, or not into my kind of guy. I’m not sorry I wore the black for as long as I did, because it was where I was at the time, but it wasn’t always the best place for me to be.)
* Did you (or would you, in hindsight) consider yourself a particular “type”, like PerkyGoth or IndustrialGoth or RaverGoth? Or did you grow up when black was black and white was lame, in the times when you wore velvet or leather or you went home in shame?
(I was an alterproggoth)
* How seriously did you take it all? Did you have a special name you used at the club?
(Oh fuck no.)
* More important than anything else: How many ankhs did you own?
(One on a necklace made of skull beads, and an earring I didn’t wear all that often. I still have them somewhere.)
I’m not going to answer the questions right now, cause I have stuff to do, but I had to take a moment and tell you that picture is f*cking hot.
*grins* Where were you when I was stompy?!
*pink* Thanks! :D
Oddly enough, I wasn’t really part of any subculture* at all, nor was I part of the “norms”. I never fit in anywhere, nor do I still.
* Well, I suppose other than ‘overachievers anonymous.’
Preppie!
Just kidding.
At the time, I never would have called myself “goth”, even though I dressed in black and frequently thrashed out at the local goth/industrial club.
And later, when I went to raves and played with glowsticks and candy necklaces, I definitely didn’t call myself a “raver”.
In high school, I wasn’t comfortable with anyone, and I didn’t fit into any group except perhaps the BBS geeks. But after high school, I found myself pretty comfortable with everyone.
One of my friends used to say that I could slip into a subculture and ‘be’ without actually becoming part of that subculture. I don’t know if that’s true or even possible, but I know I never defined myself that way at the time.
In retrospect … hell, I don’t care. *grins* It’s just a label, and we all know (or should know) that the label doesn’t define your entire life or the entirety of who you are.
I think the biggest disservice people do to teenagers is explain that it is when you are a teen and young adult that you “find yourself” and figure out “who you are.” Because really, that’s just when you start actively asking that question – a healthy individual continues to ask who they are over time, because who they are continues to change.
Haha…that sounds just like me. Though the “norms” accepted me (because, ironically, I found that the subcultures were the ones that demanded the most strict conformity), but I didn’t feel like them on the inside.
On the downside, “being goth” to a lot of people meant being aggressively depressed, flagrantly fucked-up, and firehosing their personal drama all over everyone within puking distance. I hung out with those people because, to be perfectly honest, I looked like them anyway. I had a near-obsessive-favorite-color relationship with black (at one point, every single item of my clothing was black, socks and underwear included, and my hair was black and I used black marker to get rid of the white parts of my Converses…and I had silver contacts). And I was shy and depressed. So the goth clubs are the closest thing I had to a place that I looked like I fit in.
There were, of course, plenty of “goth” people for whom it was about having fun, being brash and creative, and incorporating hobbies like computers, roleplaying games and so forth, all of which I was totally down with. I had limited success with making actual friends, but that’s always been true in any context, really; doubly so when teenaged!
I “came on the scene” pretty much right when the “types of goth” were really making their debut; the only division I remember as having always been there was goth and industrial. People used to say Detroit goth was the rapechild of goth and industrial.
But I never got the clothes or makeup (again, something that didn’t work for me in any context), and pop music was kind of a background thing I paid occasional attention to. I got along well with the nerdy goths and the industrial-art goths (chainsaw sculptures and such) the most, I think.
I wouldn’t say I took it seriously at all — I didn’t even have a wardrobe for it; my regular clothes just thankfully fit the bill. But for several years there, that club was about the only place I felt comfortable, and I still think fondly of it. And I still prefer the aesthetic, albeit with a heavy dose of minimalism and poise.
Hehe, I owned one ankh, but since I hardly ever wore jewelry, it mostly sat in my drawer.
You look good, by the way! Self-amused goths were(are) the *best*.
Well, I surely don’t look like that anymore, but thanks. :D
I was fortunate that many of the explosively drama-laden goths were outside of my group. Oh, not entirely, but it was generally the friend-of-a-friend who went to jail or got dramatically pregnant or was seriously suicidal.
My crew were people who, though they may have had a propensity for dark clothes, did not “dress up” flamboyantly unless going out to the club. I wore black jeans and black shirts (I am embarrassed to say that today is an all-black work clothes day for me, actually), among other colors, but they were pretty normal clothes, otherwise.
Other than the dramatics of perpetual girl-related complications, my post-highschool years were remarkably drama-free. By the time I was 20, I was pretty happy to be myself, as I saw me.
The day I turned 18, one of my coworkers insisted on taking me to CityClub. I worked 2nd shift, so we just left directly from work (a corporate environment). *chuckle* That was a memorable experience: the dance floor consisted of one room with benches all around, plain christmas lights on the ceiling, and one single strobe light, giving everyone seizures (or was that dancing?)
That was either dancing or slow-motion seizures, I never figured which.
I went to City Club every weekend for quite a few years — not so many to be embarrassing now, but enough that I was a “regular”. I also worked there for a short time, while I was on break from college. It was a great place to hang out…nice combinations of loud and quiet, light and dark, and lots of places to hide and people-watch and write stories in your notebook. ;)
I wish I knew less people who committed suicide, got dramatically pregnant or did hard time either in jail or on drugs. But hey, this is a rough town I guess. Some of us turned out okay.
(Also, LOL because I’m wearing all black at work today, too! I don’t always, but I think I’ll always lean towards it, if only for being easy to match!)
People used to say Detroit goth was the rapechild of goth and industrial.
I love that! It’s the best description of it I’ve ever heard.
I heard it in a San Francisco goth club. ;)
I never got into goth as much as I think I would have if I would have grown up in a less oppressive home environment. I was pretty much never allowed to have any of my own money, so clothing purchases that weren’t Stepmom-Vetted just didn’t happen.
My first girl-crush was, however, on a fictional character – Gaiman’s Death, and I had several ankhs and planned for years to get an ankh tattoo when I turned 18. By then I’d outgrown the obsession.
I like, Yak, never had one “group” of people – I had friends that were burnouts and friends that were in the “popular crowd” and friends that were the nerdy over-achievers and a lot of geek friends. I flitted from group to group and I really think that I had a far more positive high school experience than most people because of it. I find my ability to slide into any group of people and if not completely fit in, at least blend in to be a pretty good life skill.
* What did (or does) “gothyness” mean to you?
I think I equate gothiness with the first group of people I knew who were sarcastic, funny and wore black. I was actually introduced to most “goth” tunes by people who in no way consider themselves goth.
* Did you (or would you, in hindsight) consider yourself a particular “type”, like PerkyGoth or IndustrialGoth or RaverGoth? Or did you grow up when black was black and white was lame, in the times when you wore velvet or leather or you went home in shame?
I was more of a punk goth- I was never terribly feminine and so I rocked the shaved head and flat black.
* How seriously did you take it all? Did you have a special name you used at the club?
How seriously have I ever taken myself?
* How do you feel about footwear? What is and isn’t acceptable stomping material?
I heart all shoes. Ever.
* Goth in the workplace: did you? Do you? If so, what kind of workplace?
It’s funny that now I could totally goth it up for work, but now I’ve lost the urge. – serverhosting company.
* Do you still go to CityClub (or your local variant), or is that something you’re happy to leave behind? If you do, do you still dress up, or do you go in jeans, too old hat to care?
I have never been to city club.
* More important than anything else: How many ankhs did you own?
One.
There! I did it!
I love the b/w picture of you with the short spiky hair where I repainted your hair blue. :D
I was a “I play V:TM even though I’m not goth and I studied costume design so I can assemble an aesthetic that lets me blend into a crowd” goth.
Not seriously at all. I was not goth. And not in a Siouxsie Sioux “totally in denial” sort of way.
I wore Doc Martins yes. But in my mind, it’s the footwear of Stage Crew types. And at the time, I was working Stage Crew at Universal Studios.
Black was the required color at work. See above.
I went once. Other people dressed me up. I looked pretty good, but I had a terrible time. I’m not a clubbing type person. I prefer dive bars where you can, you know, TALK.
I did mention I played V:TM right? Also, I was really into Egyptian mythology when I was a kid. So I entered the scene already owning some ankh jewelry.
I, too, played V:TM, before there were LARP rules.
These days, I like to combine things so that we go dance (probably at an 80’s night, actually) and then hit up an all-night coney for most of our conversation.
I must sadly admit that I LARPed.
* What did (or does) “gothyness” mean to you?
That’s not easy to answer. I’ve really distanced myself from that whole scene, and it’s not easy to put myself back in that headspace from a few years ago.
I guess back then I would have talked about things like the clothes I wore, how I decorated my house, how I spent my time (at the clubs).
* Did you (or would you, in hindsight) consider yourself a particular “type”, like PerkyGoth or IndustrialGoth or RaverGoth? Or did you grow up when black was black and white was lame, in the times when you wore velvet or leather or you went home in shame?
I dunno. I liked velvet and leather and pleather and *gasp* colors and glitter and cyber stuff and Steampunk stuff and spiky stuff…
* How seriously did you take it all? Did you have a special name you used at the club?
I felt under pressure to live up to an image to help maintain my ex-husband’s DJ image, for sure. But deep down, being honest with myself, no, I can’t say I personally took it seriously apart from that. I adopted a serious attitude to please someone else. I generally went by Arachnia, but that had more to do with my love of mythology than anything else.
* How do you feel about footwear? What is and isn’t acceptable stomping material?
Back then? I was a huge fan of Doc’s, New Rocks, and Swear shoes (or rip-offs of all the previous brands)
* Goth in the workplace: did you? Do you? If so, what kind of workplace?
I did. Right here at Crain. I don’t anymore. :) I’ve gone back to my vintage roots.
* Do you still go to CityClub (or your local variant), or is that something you’re happy to leave behind? If you do, do you still dress up, or do you go in jeans, too old hat to care?
*sings to the tune of the old Jello commercials)
H — E — LL – NO!
Glad to leave that behind. I have a special hatred for those places because I always have to consider who my ex-husband was boffing behind my back when we were still married, and if I’m talking to one at that very moment. Bad juju. Besides the fact that I take no joy or pleasure out of going into that scene any more in general. I have better ways to invest my time. :)
* More important than anything else: How many ankhs did you own?
I may have owned one? I was more of the Celticy-Pagany goth flavor.
I LARPed in designer clothes bought from Bluefly.com. Clearly, I didn’t have any idea what the movement was about at all. ;)
* What did (or does) “gothyness” mean to you?
involvement in scene based losely around the evolving music enjoyed therin.
* Did you (or would you, in hindsight) consider yourself a particular “type”, like PerkyGoth or IndustrialGoth or RaverGoth? Or did you grow up when black was black and white was lame, in the times when you wore velvet or leather or you went home in shame?
I started out as a “romantiogoth” in time it merged into a more rivethead look, and am not edging away from “I don’t care, look!! Boobies!” to a Steampunk variant.
* How seriously did you take it all? Did you have a special name you used at the club?
I used to take it VERY seriously, but now, not so much. No fake names unless it was to ward off unwanted male attention.
* How do you feel about footwear? What is and isn’t acceptable stomping material?
Combat boots. With everything.
* Goth in the workplace: did you? Do you? If so, what kind of workplace?
I wear alot of black. They’re used to it, but congradulate me when I wear a color.
* Do you still go to CityClub (or your local variant), or is that something you’re happy to leave behind? If you do, do you still dress up, or do you go in jeans, too old hat to care?
I still go, more now than when I was younger. I still dress up, but it’s not the hours long affair of yesteryear.
* More important than anything else: How many ankhs did you own?
NONE!
Gotta remember I was a backwoods vermont boy at this point (really still am) so this may not look AT ALL like you experience.
Gothyness split itself into Three seperate things, in my life.
1: The people who dressed dark (mostly), kept pale, Listened to NIN, and the cure, who were one of the groups I could hang with without having to watch my back. This group came, in my life, to symbolize those willing to break the rules, without harming anyone, who liked differnt things from most. . .A group who appreciated me, even though I wasn’t a member, and from whos ranks I found several good relationships, both romantic and friendly.
2: The group who wore the same things, roughtly, who listened to similar music, who Called themselves goth (unlike the other two groups), who emo’d all over everything, and who freaked out at anything outside their little patch of abnormal. . Who I scored, not because I WAS a member of the real group, but because I scorened anyone who couldn’t handle the real world outside their little candle light. Not scorened heavily, mind you, because they at least stepped a little ways from the light. . .But they were still toddlers where group one was growing up.
3: The Ex-punks, who thought the look made them scark, who were looking for a mosh pit to hurt people in, and who tried to fit in with both the groups above. . .And then hurt everyone they touched in either. . . This group I ended up having to defend groups one and two against a couple times. Some of this crew came to respect me, and joined me as informal protectors of the outsiders. Some of them hated my guts. . .. And I always watched for them, knowing they were hard to spot. . . but somehow it was my job.
I wasn’t a goth. . .i was me. One day with the leather australian riding jacket, leather hat, leather gloves, spiked collar. . . The next day dressed for work, shirt and tie. I hung out with my friends when I could, where I could, often completely dressed wrong for the ‘scene’. . . and caring not a whit. In other words, I was the guy who always stood out as being ‘not part of the group’. . . .And yet never pulled the ‘outsider’ string.
Serious? I took my job pretty seriously. My job was to make a safe place for those I called friend to be. Most of the time that meant just being around. Occasionally that meant rounding up three or four friends who knew the score (Scare em, but don’t leave a mark. . No violence, just the threat, and more than enough scary to back it up), and go have a talk with someone who shoudl have knew better. . . And did after we were done with our talking. Other than that, I was just me. Come party at my place, but don’t be dumb. Dress how you like, show off your style, don’t mock anyone elses style. . and have fun.
And footwear? I tended to stick to Merrell hiking boots, in black or grey . .. The did super-multi-purpose-duty, and the factory seconds were DIRT cheap. . .Work, home, club, church street, LARPing, Tabletop, midnight on the waterfront, intimidating, whatever :)
And, no Ankhs. Too mainstream for me. Little chubby buddhas, yeah. My own wand, yeah. But no Ankhs
Nope. Not goth. Attracted to the hot goth chicks, though.
Footwear – boots. Always boots. (Okay, sometimes something lighter around the house and office.)
I own no less than 4 ankhs. Although I probably couldn’t put my hands on them this week.
What it meant?….Well, it was fun to get dressed up and go to City Club every now and then. (Still is when I get the chance.) This would generally involve putting on some cute little vinyl thing or maybe, a long, flowing dress. Didn’t go so far as face paint. This would make me pathetic by snooty goth standards, but I didn’t interact with those people much. So, it wasn’t an issue. I guess I never really knew the people who took it seriously. Though this was the time period when everyone was “alternative” and just generically “different”, but we didn’t do anything specifically goth outside of the club.