I sense this might be a many-post day. I hope you’re all ready for that.
This one started brief, but is a good page or so, to warn you.
I know I have a few friends who specifically don’t read my long posts. I’m thinking about either creating an opt-in filter (I never have before) or creating an entirely separate blog for them, because these posts are the meat in my journal. This is where I really express who I (think I) am, so you’re kinda missing out on what’s important to me when you pass them by.
So, onward.
When most people talk about love and being misunderstood in the way that they love, they’re usually talking about romantic love. LGBT folk are misunderstood by the straight community, polyamorous folk are totally misunderstood by the monogamy community, and even those who don’t desire to ever be in what you might call a ‘significant’ relationship are misunderstood by those who’d call them callous for not ‘letting love into their life’.
Right now, though, I’m thinking about love in a wider sense.
Sometimes, I feel someone else’s limitations regarding the love of others placed on my shoulders, and I sense a sort of accusation that I can’t really care deeply about others in the sort of quantity I do, and still be earnest about it. Even sadder, I get the impression that a person (and this isn’t generic to be coy, I genuinely don’t have anyone in mind) thinks my love/friendship must be less valuable or true if it applies to many people.
Now, on a purely objective ‘time’ level, maybe that is more true than anyone would like to admit. There are some people I care very much for that I never see except during parties and social gatherings, it’s true.
The first thing is that I *do* care. Genuinely, and deeply. Twice in as many days I’ve talked with people about how heartbreakingly difficult it can be to give harsh advice to those you love who need it, and I’ve been mulling that over. It reminds me of the line from the Matrix (from the Oracle) – “I hate giving good people bad news.”
I think the thing about how my head and heart works that has been most difficult to understand by those closest to me is that I may -love- to debate and argue, but I don’t do it for the victory. I don’t feel superior when my way wins (except with Ben— I mean, Hi Ben!). I especially don’t feel good about telling someone something about themselves, their behavior, or their situation that they aren’t going to like, or that may cause them pain. Even telling someone when I feel mistreated causes me some anguish, when it’s someone I love, because I know what it is like to carry the burden of having done something crappy to someone else when all you want to do is love them and make them happy.
Yeah, yeah, I’m a ridiculous softie. I know it. That doesn’t mean I’m less than pragmatic, and I consider that a survival trait, especially when it comes to mental health. Let us come back to love: If there’s anything I’ve learned from some of my more spectacularly emotional relationships, it is that Love is separate from trust, from friendship, from cohabitation-friendly, from practicality, from happiness, from honor or regard, from lust and even from reciprocation. All of those can enhance love, and can make love more fulfilling and worthwhile, and without them, pursuing a loving relationship with someone (friendship or life-partner) may be impossible, but they are NOT love, and love is NOT those things.
For someone who loves his friends and partners so deeply, I must seem terribly pragmatic at times. But as I’ve said before, for me love is (at its base) joy in another person’s existence. It doesn’t require ANYTHING to be – it just is, and should not be denied at any time. It should be cherished, even.
The problem is that we roll those things together into one concept, capital-L Love, and we’re confused when we can say “I love them but I don’t.” The last few times I’ve broken up with someone, I’ve loved them terribly, achingly. They were so important to me (in fact, sometimes too important for my own mental safety, because I allowed them to manipulate me). How could I walk away when they were so important to me? I could walk away because love is only one step towards a happy relationship, and one or more other steps were missing.
I don’t know if I will ever be able to truly present this idea in a way that’s understandable. Understanding that love does not REQUIRE action is key to many things, including being happy loving someone who does not reciprocate, being happy when your relationships preclude action, being happy with your chosen partner(s). When we say “I’m really mad at you right now, but I still love you”, we are admitting that loving someone else is not the kitchen sink we make it out to be. It’s specific. It’s far reaching. And it goes much deeper and happens with more frequency than our limited time and practicality would dictate. It exists when trust and companionship have died, and grows at the most inconvenient of times.
So what do you do? Do you mourn that fact, pining for lost or unrequited loves, or do you celebrate it? Do you say “I’m sorry, I’m too busy for new friends”, or do you make room for one more, understanding that you may indeed not be able to spend hours a day with everyone? That choice (to experience it as loss or joy), it feels like it is something that happens to us, but it is entirely ours to make.
Maybe one day that idea, my perspective on that, will be “what I have to say”. Every artist has some perspective they think is unique, maybe that’s mine. I’m not saying it’s best, but it’s the best I’ve tried so far. Maybe it’s not the whole of that, but the final statement there about controlling our own perspective. Maybe I exist a certain way, and found a way of thinking that allowed me to be happy with that way, and changed my mind to suit.
Your thoughts are appreciated, as ever.
Its not so much that i pass these posts by, i always read them, but, i never really have anything to add.
*smiles* That’s okay, too – I don’t assume either way. A few people have told me as much, so I know that it is true for some.
Also, really, anything in there that strikes you, that you either identify with, or contrast with, or that makes you think of an aspect of your life… anything you contribute is good. It doesn’t have to be a debate. *grin*
Also, I was probably rambling. :D
I totally can see what you mean about loving someone but not taking action. There can be a variety of reasons for that being the case. I think we are conditioned to believe that action is a requirement if we love someone, but let’s face it, depending upon the circumstances, that has the power to bring as much suffering as it does joy. You can love someone (and the feeling can be reciprocated) but circumstances are not in place for those people to be together, at least, not at that place and time. It doesn’t mean that the feelings don’t exist, just that the people are mature enough to realize that they shouldn’t act upon them.
The last few times I’ve broken up with someone, I’ve loved them terribly, achingly. They were so important to me (in fact, sometimes too important for my own mental safety, because I allowed them to manipulate me). How could I walk away when they were so important to me? I could walk away because love is only one step towards a happy relationship, and one or more other steps were missing.
AMEN. AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN.
I feel the need to mull over this, but for now I leave you with something roughly five years old:
Love/Infatuation
Infatuation is usually ‘lust/heat’ combined with feeling good about yourself – because someone else finds you so delicious, attractive, and desirable. It’s that first stage in the relationship where you “love” everything about them – they can do no wrong. Often we don’t realize it’s because we now view our lives so positively because we’re now a “couple” vs. single and we attribute ALL the greatness in our lives to that other person.
(and the more miserable you’ve been [based on your personal perception of life as a whole and your control over your own destiny in it] single – the more elated you’ll be “in lust” and you’ll make statements and take actions that are extreme, rash, and quick – that will have you repenting at leisure for the entirety of your life)
and here’s where I’ll add a branch to the tree:
Then there’s “in love”- which means that you accept who they are, and what they bring to your life and you’re “in love” with them, yourself, the life you now have in general. That’s “in love”. And that fluctuates with situation. Because situations result in emotions although today we seem to have it reversed and allow our emotions to dictate our actions/words/decisions which result in situations (usually not to our liking and we overreact again).
But “love” takes lots of time. And “love” is what will keep you true to the relationship – when situations or circumstances have you neither “in love” nor “in lust” with them.
Love is when you really understand this person, you accept them – flaws, faults and all. You understand them because the values, priorities and boundaries and goals are similar to your own. The methods of pursuit/definitions of success, security and happiness are similar in context to yours and most importantly in the “why” of why they want/do/need/desire things. Love allows you to let them define for themselves what is best, to be supportive appropriately, and joyous for them (not “with” them – another thing altogether) in their achievements. Love allows you objectivity and discernment – it requires that you speak up if they’re falling out of line with THEIR priorities, boundaries, values, and goals. It allows you to participate fully while not overshadowing the joy and elation of their successes, triumphs and accomplishments. And love is reciprocal, equality based, and mutually beneficial. It’s not a “one sided” state of affairs – which is very possible with ‘lust’ and ‘in love’.
Love requires two complete individuals with high degrees of self-esteem (appropriate self-love) because they must not view themselves as an adjunct or “in need” of this relationship in order to be happy, successful, and secure. But they must view this relationship as of paramount importance to the elation, joy, and contentment that pervades their daily existence. That’s a fine line to walk. It requires a lot of self-knowledge – and in the process of gaining that knowledge – you acquire self-esteem.
Love can allow the most diverse of individuals on external levels to be a happy, successful, secure couple – because it requires that they are both successful, happy, secure individuals who’ve co-joined those lifestyles to result in greater joy to the individuals.
And when love is not present – the most externally similar of couples cannot live in true harmony, peace, serenity, and security.
I always read them but I usually don’t have anything to add, or anything coherant anyway.
My first relationship taught me that love did not mean the same thing as trust. It was a new concept to me but it came surprisingly easily. I knew what I felt. I knew that I loved him very much, but I also knew that our relationship was too new for there to be a significant amount of trust with regards to certain subjects. He had more trouble with it (“you love me, why don’t you trust me?”)
*nod* I think every couple struggles with a varied definition of love, and few of them vocalize and try to understand the differences.
I do very much think it is possible to be in a real relationship with someone who has a differing definition of love, so long as both understand and are happy with the other’s definition.
Cracking at the big ones again are we?
*rolls up sleeves*
I think you can love someone, easily, with your definition. In fact, I think you can love lots of someones, easily, with your definition. I certanily use that definition in a general sense with people that I am not close too.
Now for some other folks (who I shan’t name, but I *know* you *know* who I mean), I love them more deeply because I know them deeply. I know that I’ve made the decision to make certain people a priority, time wise. Does that mean I love other people less and them more? Maybe. Maybe not. I think it has to do with more things then love; things like trust, mutual goals, shared hobbies and passions, supporting each other, etc. When I say “I love them” that’s what more what I mean. Those words wrap up my whole act of loving someone – I’m there for them, we’re on the same side, I want them to be the best they can and I’ll help however the hell I can with that. It’s sorta like “I’ve got your back” and “You are awesome” all rolled into one. They’re not light words from me, which is why, for the people I do love, I tell them often.
Which, while I’m on the topic, we’ve discussed how much, how often and to whom you say “I love you.” How does that and this mesh??
I think we’re definitely working with different definitions of the word, and in different situations. I love people. I also love you my friend. I also love my husband. And my other best friends. Each of those loves is different and complex and multi-layered. I certainly use differend definitions at different times when I say it, and I think it makes sense in context…
*goes to mull this over some more and wait for more comments*
That is certainly a fair and good definition for how you use the word love, and seems consistent to me. I agree that those other things are often rolled up into the word love.
You know, as a sort of an aside, I sometimes try to take someone aside and tell them, specifically, those other things. Just so they know what I -do- mean when I say “I love you”. I’ve really been pleased with the responses that gets.
So here’s the thing: I read every one of these posts ‘o your’n, but I really don’t understand them. That’s not a judgement or anything. Far from it. We just seem to think differently from an emotional standpoint, you and I. So I read these posts and find them fascinating. I could never sit down and say “I agree” or “I disagree” or anything remotely like that. I don’t think about them in terms of debate. I read them and get a perspective I don’t experience about life and it fascinates me.
That said, I’m not really looking to get into a deep discussion about how my perspective on love and relationships might differ from yours. Part of what’s different is that it isn’t something I talk much about and I kind of prefer to keep it that way. Generally speaking, anyway. One of the things I really respect is that I think I can say something like that, so plainly, and I don’t think you’ll take it as a slight.
I just felt a need to comment, is all.
See, that’s cool, that it fascinates you and that it is different! It’s okay that you want to keep your perspective under your hat – I wasn’t trying to call people out for not commenting (I’ll do that in some other post, heh heh).
And you’re right – I can’t see how you’d mean it in any way more than the face value.
i’d like second this entire comment.
Yes, L-love is too broad a word for what we use it for, these days. I understand and agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Some of it I’ve known for years, some of it I’ve only come to recently, post-divorce, when I was forced into a new understanding.
I break it down a few ways. These aren’t mutually exclusive divides, more flavors and variations:
platonic vs. romantic vs. family
attraction vs. lust vs. infatuation vs. heart-felt
In one of my circles, we have a sort of joke: “We love each other deeply, truly. But we don’t love each other. Yet.” And I know of many other ‘incestuous’ social circles where people, all while staying friends, fall willy-nilly into and out of each others’ arms and beds, pretty much without hard feelings at all. In another social circle that’s now gone, I said out loud at one notable gathering “I consider you all my lovers. Doesn’t mean I’m sleeping with you.”
Mrmm, I’m being quite random today. Oh well. I just figured I’d throw a few of these your way. =-)
Thanks for your comments. I think it’s good that people see it in so many different ways.
And you’ve already heard about -our- incestuous social circle, I’m sure. :D
There are several people who I wish could both read AND comprehend what you’ve written about here.
You already know you and I are in agreement on the idea of love – and you’ve done a marvelous job of phrasing it here. Keep up the good work!
Thanks :D I’ll do what I can.
If it makes you think of anything, recall anything, please do share.
Mulling. Definite mulling. Don’t know if I’ll come back here any time soon, cause there’s mulling for nearly a year, but I’ll let you know if I have any breakthroughs. :)
I look forward to it :)
Love is joy in another person’s existence
You put into words the one thing missing from my own post on love a couple months ago. Thank you my brilliantly insightful friend. I love you.
*grins* Love you too! :D
Love is such an interesting emotion, and even more interesting as a concept. Impossible to define, and comes in infinite flavors. Our language is beyond insufficient in this area, as well; many languages have a different word for every different kind of love, and all of them translate into English as love.
The important thing is this. Love in and of itself is meaningless. It’s what you do about it that counts. I applaud you for the willingness to develop your own set of values that guide you in your responses. Too many people allow their pre-programmed responses acquired from many years of “supposed to”, if you catch my drift.
also, this post reminds me of the poem that got Chuck and I together,”The Invitation”, I think you might like it: http://www.oriahmountaindreamer.com/
Too many people allow their pre-programmed responses acquired from many years of “supposed to”, if you catch my drift.
That sentence should read: Too many people allow their pre-programmed responses acquired from many years of “supposed to” to guide their actions and beliefs, if you catch my drift.
I have a hard time saying the “L” word, I try (and apparently have failed in the past) at keeping things compartmentalized in a way that protects my emotions. I have no problem telling friends and family members that I love them and in my own way I do, I really do. Even in past relationships, where I haven’t told those I’ve been involved with that I Love them, I have obviously been fond of them, and liked them very, very much but Love? Not so much.
I believe this has more to do with my wish to be more of a transient person more than anything else. In a round about way, I was an air force brat, after that, I bopped back and fourth between two/three continents; who has time to form attachments?
Perhaps a foolish way to live life because in the end you’re hurting no one but yourself.
been reading up on buddhist philosophy of late. it tells me that attachments are one of the primary causes of suffering, and also that love and attatchment are not the same thing, which was kind of the point of scott’s post, just to point out how it comes full circle.
You’re right, they’re very much not, however attachment can lead to love, which is where I was going with that.