University of Florida student Tasered at Kerry forum
September 17th. At first, I was pretty skeptical of what I was going to see, but I felt the hair rise on my neck, the more I watched it.
He was clearly creating a disturbance, and (as clearly) Kerry was trying to answer his question. I’m not posting this because I, personally, need to express a political opinion on this. I’m posting it because, when the girl starts shouting (in concern) in the end, I wanted to shout with her.
Mostly, I look at this and wonder at the incompetence of the staff. From every standpoint, they did a pretty crappy job.
If you’d like to see other angles, there were plenty of cameras there – just go to the youtube video and look at “related”.
Weirdness.
I wonder what happened before the camera started rolling to have the cops jump him like that…..
He was being a jerk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s
Note that the crowd applauded him being taken away, he was being a jerk.
They’re talking about charging him with felony resisting-arrest-with-violence. He’s been released on his own recognizance.
I think they could have gotten him out of there without tasering him. There were a lot of them, and they had him cuffed when they zapped him.
Ah. Gotcha, and they are only University Cops…so I would be willing to better they don’t get the perp-control (for lack of the correct phrase) that Staties get.
I don’t think he was actually cuffed at that point. It looked like he’d just wrested his arm away from the cop who was trying to cuff him before he got it.
I don’t feel this was a political situation.
Yes, it happened at a political event, yes he was (in my view) baiting with the question he asked, but the response by the security (rent a cops? police?) was over the line – but it’s not entirely their fault. One of the first things they always say to remember about civil disobedience is the first word is the most important. Be civil if you don’t want anything like that to happen to you. By pulling away repeatedly he was (again) baiting the security to do something about it and make a scene (again, my opinion).
I’m not saying security was in the right to attempt to detain him, and I’m not saying he was in the wrong to bring up those questions… it just appears to me like he was doing it on purpose, for a purpose… especially some of the longer versions with the full questions/accusations he was throwing out. He was doing it to be confrontational.
Re: I don't feel this was a political situation.
I have not seen the longer versions to know his questions, but I do agree with you that he certainly wasn’t following the ‘rules’ of civil disobedience.
I do, though, think he was just a kid, not a plant. I think he was trying to be incendiary, but I doubt he planned it as it happened.
I just closed another link that showed different angles, from off to the right of where he’s tasered, including the woman who’s filming the one for youtube.
The thing is, they tasered him after they had him on the ground in handcuffs. More than once! There were what, five of them? If it had been for control, or he had been running . . . maybe. But there were a lot of them, and he was being loud but was controlled. They were on him, he was cuffed. They could have bound his ankles and hauled him off until a paddy wagon arrived. I think they tased him just to get him to shut the fuck up and admit that they were in charge — and that’s not a good enough reason.
I agree. I was mostly surprised that, once they had him on the floor and cuffed, they did not take him out of the room and away from his audience.
AP news article:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hfZBulx_H-prruRU2Clj0dIgUOww
Thanks Tammy!
I read the article, and I have to wonder at this line:
“The site also has what is called a “disorganized diatribe” …”
Who? Who calls it that? Is it a traditional type of commentary, is it something from the website itself, or is the author making his own judgment?
Grrrr, professional people not being professional! Where’s my
taserclub?!Self-described:
http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/columns/columns.asp
Thanks! *mutter* I still wish they’d been clearer …
Huh. The timing of the crowd reaction is interesting. They didn’t applaud when the cops grabbed the kid; they applauded when he yelled, “No, I’m not going!” Was that in response to the kid, or to something that Kerry said in response to the situation? The crowd must’ve known what was going on, since the kid had already shouted, “What are you arresting me for?” You can hear Kerry trying to restore calm, and other people in the crowd yelling questions to the cops. It seems to me that the crowd was more supportive of the kid and his rights than the cops dragging him away, but I could be wrong.
Personally, I think it was an excessive use of force on a loudmouth kid. He was doing what anyone else would’ve done had the cops suddenly grabbed them and tried to put on handcuffs: Asking, “Why? What did I do?” Yeah, he was belligerent and stupid about it, but he has the right to know why he’s being taken into custody.
Also, I think the officers escalated too quickly. Yeah, it was dumb to try and yank Kerry’s tail while pissing off the event organizers, but as far as I know, people can’t be arrested on suspicion of stupidity. They should’ve just escorted him out of the building. I think they mishandled the situation by immediately turning to force rather than telling the moron, “Look, we’re going to escort you out of the building now, you’re making a scene.” Watch the thing; the two officers that grabbed him just take hold of his arms, they don’t say a word to the kid.
He struggled, but the cops could clearly control his physical behavior, if not his running mouth. He did not offer violence to the officers, even going so far as to hold up his hands at one point. The only thing that he did that I could see was protest his arrest – loudly – because he didn’t know why or what he had done to warrant being taken into custody. Easily solved by telling him why the officers were doing what they were doing, rather than screaming, “Stop resisting,” and zapping him with a taser.
Now, if they’d thrown him out and he tried to return, or refused to leave after being asked, or screamed at the door, or threw rocks or something, then I can see them arresting the guy for disturbing the peace and shit. But this? He was a loudmouth idiot at a political forum. Those things attract loudmouth idiots like bees to honey. There must be a better protocol for dealing with people like this than cuffing and tasing.
With all of the tear gas that flies every year at MSU, I have a feeling that thought, logic, and common sense no longer apply to “possible riot situations” like colleges.
Another consequence of the society of fear?
I don’t think he was arrested til he attempted to resist being removed from the theater. Can’t a cop take someone out if they are being disruptive? He fought them the whole way, even to the point of running into other people who were there.
Watch the video again, even when he is down on the ground, he is doing his best to resist getting handcuffed, and he is clearly warned that he will be tased if he resists.
Honestly, has shouting or trying to pull away while being arrested ever helped?
Never seems like a good idea on *COPS*…..
I’m not arguing that the kid was a dumbass to begin with, and certainly didn’t help the situation by screaming his fool head off. I just don’t think that the immediate use of force by the cops helped, either. I think that the spin on this situation would be much, much different if the videos showed one of the cops telling him to leave on his own, then telling him that they were going to escort him out of the building (before grabbing him and moving him towards the door), and then going for the cuffs and taser. There was none of that progression, though, and that’s the problem I (and, from the look of the YouTube comments, many others) have with this scene, that the cops skipped reason entirely and moved straight to force.
Honestly, I think it probably would’ve ended the same way in either case. There’s a video here of what happened after the kid was tasered and dragged out of the room, and he’s still spouting off at the mouth and trying to control the situation. However, if the cops had been on record trying to reason with the kid and get him to leave quietly, then most would’ve just written the situation off off as one complete moron ignoring the warnings of the cops and getting what he deserved. Instead, the cops essentially made this kid a political/free speech martyr.
Oh, and just to clarify, I don’t think the cops are warranted tasering him in any case. I think it was over the line.
But to be honest, at one point in the video, it looks like he’s trying to rush toward the stage right before he was brought down. THAT would have been the moment for tasering if any. The kid was a little too…excitable.
I dunno about rushing the stage; it looked like the two cops grabbed him as he was backing away from the now-dead mike, and after that, I think he was just trying to go in any direction that was away from the cops on his arms. It looked to me like any move he made toward the stage was accidental.
*grin* Of course, nobody will know for sure what the guy had intended to do, at least not until he writes his big exposé on the event and is interviewed by Oprah.
Well, here’s a personalization of the situation. When I was younger, I was grabbed from behind on the street and raped. Now, when someone comes at me from behind without announcing themselves, I lose my mind and beat them bloody. That’s not a hypothetical. It’s happened.
They didn’t announce themselves, they just grabbed him from behind. He probably knew they were there, but they still didn’t announce themselves before grabbing him from behind for what looks like no reason at all. I consider his reaction of “What did I do?” and trying to get away more than reasonable, and a hell of a lot more peaceful than I would have been in the same situation (which is really the only honest standard I can judge by). I would have lost it and they’d have had to taser me to unconsciousness before I would have realized where I even was. With at least six of them on him and his only protest being to try to face them and asking what he did he was well within his Consitutional rights. They didn’t tell him what he’d done and they didn’t inform him of his rights and they didn’t even tell him they were arresting him until after they’d grabbed him.
Unless he was waving a gun around before he entered and everyone’s neglected to add that, it seems pretty cut and dry that they were in the wrong, regardless of what he said or how and whether he was a dumbass or not. It’s not a crime to be a dumbass.
I can’t believe I’m defending a cop here…but here goes….
He probably knew they were there, but they still didn’t announce themselves before grabbing him from behind for what looks like no reason at all.
I can’t see the whole hall, but the guy’s microphone had just been cut. Someone had decided it was time for him to go, and it wasn’t the cops making a decision on their own.
I consider his reaction of “What did I do?” and trying to get away more than reasonable, and a hell of a lot more peaceful than I would have been in the same situation (which is really the only honest standard I can judge by).
Asking “What did I do?” is reasonable. Violently pulling away…hard enough to run into a photographer nearby, isn’t. Pulling away, only to then immediately attempt to run past them and back toward the stage certainly isn’t.
I would have lost it and they’d have had to taser me to unconsciousness before I would have realized where I even was.
Then my question to you is, would you put yourself into this kind of situation? He didn’t just ask a question, he took more than his allotted time, taking free speech from some other citizen for his own selfish grandstanding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s
Notice how angry and condescending toward the police he is before they’ve even touched him for DARING to tell him to wrap it up. Notice how he doesn’t talk to the person who spoke to him, but rather to the microphone.
He’s there for the audience. He’s there to make a disturbance. He’s there to disrupt.
With at least six of them on him and his only protest being to try to face them and asking what he did he was well within his Consitutional rights. They didn’t tell him what he’d done and they didn’t inform him of his rights and they didn’t even tell him they were arresting him until after they’d grabbed him.
I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but you have no Constitutional right to resist a lawful order of a police officer. You have no right to stand in a hall after being disruptive to that hall. You have no right to demand of police that they inform you of what you are being arrested for when they may not be arresting you at all, but removing you. Also, you are only informed of your rights if you are going to be questioned. There was no need to question him, as everyone saw exactly how disruptive he was being.
Unless he was waving a gun around before he entered and everyone’s neglected to add that, it seems pretty cut and dry that they were in the wrong, regardless of what he said or how and whether he was a dumbass or not. It’s not a crime to be a dumbass.
It isn’t a crime to be a dumbass, unless your dumbassness results in you disturbing the peace, defying police officers, and trespassing. It is a crime to cause a disturbance of the peace. I believe it is a crime to not submit to a lawful order of a police officer. I believe that it is a crime to remain on property after being told to leave.
Could the cops have handled it better? Define better. They could have said “Pardon me, but you have to vacate the premises now.” To which he would have responded that he damn well wasn’t going anywhere. I know this because that’s what he said ANYWAY. He wasn’t leaving without being dragged out.
As I’ve said, they shouldn’t have tasered him. To be honest, this is the only point where I think they crossed the line.
What about his Rights? Define rights. He’d asked his questions. First amendment is intact. Well, what about responding to Kerry’s response? Look, he doesn’t have the RIGHT to monopolize the discussion. He can go outside and try to make his points to people. The first amendment is about a marketplace of ideas, not about being able to harass someone on stage. I’d say the cops had probable cause to remove a disruptive person from a meeting hall, and that’s the only relevant section of the Fourth Amendment. Regarding having his rights read to him, I doubt he would shut up after getting Mirandized.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to make some bacon.
Could the cops have handled it better? Define better. They could have said “Pardon me, but you have to vacate the premises now.” To which he would have responded that he damn well wasn’t going anywhere. I know this because that’s what he said ANYWAY. He wasn’t leaving without being dragged out.
As I’ve said, they shouldn’t have tasered him. To be honest, this is the only point where I think they crossed the line.
What about his Rights? Define rights.
I more-or-less agree with this, except that I think the cops, while not crossing the line, did their jobs exceptionally poorly up to the point of tasering, especially considering they were in a crowd of people.
I ran out of room there, but this is a guide for college students:
http://publicsafety.binghamton.edu/workingtogether.htm
The laws are for New York State, and a specific college town, but the bits I found salient are:
Obstructing governmental administration in the second degree
Resisting arrest
Disorderly conduct
Trespass
There’s definitely something more to what happened. From the description on another youtube video:
I couldnt get to my camera in time to record his entrance, but this guy basically comes running in with 4 or 5 cops in tow and says he has been running around trying to get in to ask a question and the cops are going to arrest him for it. they almost do it then but Sen. Kerry says he will answer it. he then answers a previous question someone else asked (i cut that part out because it isnt important to this video) then the guy asks his questions and when he is done all hell breaks lose. to the cop haters: i have no doubt the cops were going exactly by the book, the problem isnt them, its the book! they were doing their job and looked just as confused as this kid (this isnt something that they deal with often).
from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag
So, if he was followed in by cops, did they expect something to happen? Were tensions already high? What impact did that have on things? Who knows.
Not a shock considering the State it happened in.
Add to that the popular belief that taser weapons are safe, that police have gone so far as to taser small children, as well as parents who are holding their new born babies, and it’s a no brainer.
Hadn’t seen this before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzhiI9jui8M&mode=related&search=
He thinks they are going to kill him…
I think this guy might be paranoid. ok, definitely paranoid.
The video(s) show that the University of Florida police officers started to grab and pull Andrew Meyer before using a taser on him, after he asked Sen. John Kerry about impeaching President Bush and whether it was true that he and President Bush were both members of the “Skull and Bones” secret society while attending Yale University.
President Bush,…Florida,…Jeb….Hmmm…
“Meyer was arrested on charges of resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, according to Alachua County jail records, but the State Attorney’s Office had yet to make the formal charging decision. Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a misdemeanor.”
Yet, he was released on his recognizance…My guess is the University of Florida, and the police officers involved, will try to use the threat of those charges as a way to prevent a law suit.
ariock asked the question “would you put yourself into this kind of situation?”
This act of violence is intended as a warning that you will be harmed if you question, or voice any opinion, that calls to task those that are there to serve your interests in the State and Federal Government. Much like having State troopers posted near voting locations in areas that have low GOP support. All you need is enough people to respond to that type of
question with “no, I sure wouldn’t put myself into that kind of situation,” to effectfully remove any relevance that these forums claim to have.